The Morning Mix, for July 6, 2011 - 8:00am
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I can’t believe KPF a ran an infomercial for the Petroleum industry
Promoting as the only solution for zero carbon and emission cars
To be to use more petroleum products. I thought the idea is to use less oil or use none.
That is wrong it is the worst way to go and no solution to global warming, pollution, energy shortage
And economically for consumers more expensive and makes sure we keep paying our money to the Oil monopoly
And a rip-off of our tax dollars we pay for research oil companies make profit, charge us the highest price possible.
The CA fuel cell partnership is a corporate welfare outfit. Oil company advocate group. That uses our tax dollars for research and promotion of making sure we are all good consumers and only use oil for transportation.
A fool cell car may have zero emissions at the tail pipe
As that’s due to it is driven by an electric motor
Powering a car with petroleum products (natural gas used to make hydrogen)
Is the same as we do now by using gasoline. And natural gas is a stinky smelly NON-Renewable FOSSIL FUEL !
And most will come from fracking shale deposits, which kills people and destroys the environment, gees people near natural fracking extraction their faucet blows up. I guess you think its OK to ruin peoples life’s as long as oil companies make money. It will be no cheaper than you pay for gasoline now.
When you have an EV needs no gasoline why use fool cells? To make sure oil companies pick your pocket.
An Electric car uses electricity why even consider natural gas hydrogen energy storage?
Wasteful and inefficient. The fool cell (gas) industry is NOT going to make hydrogen from using renewable electricity to power electrolysis to make hydrogen. Which uses 4 times the electricity than you get in the hydrogen.
As they said in your infomercial they are using natural gas which there is not enough of to power all our cars in the US any new natural gas is all by using fracking a deadly process.
Here is the difference
EV (electric car) powered by an electric motor. Energy stored in a Lithium Phosphate battery BEV.
You have solar panels on your roof is the cleanest most efficient method and you are making your own fuel, (electricity) cheaper than you can buy from the Utility monopoly, too cheap to meter
At 6 cents a Kwh. A typical BEV car gets 200 WattHours per mile equal to 138 Mpg.
$3.44 a week to commute 40 miles a day, 7 days in an EV using utility electricity, solar about $2.50 a week
$50 a week to commute the same distance gasser. 80 cents a week riding an EVmc.
So you get an idea about energy efficiency a gasser is 30% efficient that means 60% of the energy you use in your car is wasted. Of the $4 gasoline you buy $3 just goes out your tail pipe. This is for a car that gets 25 mpg.
You will pay the same using a petroleum industry Fool Cell usage.
Well to Wheel Solar battery Electric car cycle
Energy needed to produce 60Kwh at wheels –
Solar electric generator on your roof electricity produce –
79 Kwh no transmission loss - efficient – Charger 90% efficient
Onboard vehicle - Lion batteries 94% efficient – Electric motor 89% efficient.
4 steps in process 92.5% efficient only 7.5% of energy produced is lost
Cheap, clean, zero pollution, zero carbon, too cheap to meter in process. THE BEST SOLUTION
Use less or no Oil. recycle, reuse, Refuse
Fool cell car also is powered by an electric motor but you replace the 94% efficient batteries with a 54% efficient Fool cell loosing 40% of the energy stored in the fool cell comparative as it’s only 54% efficient in turning hydrogen into electricity a hydrogen is only storage of energy,
Well To Wheel Fool cell cycle
Drill natural gas out of ground, transport to refinery ( I don’t have energy used data but energy is used) –
You are using electricity to get the hydrogen out of the natural gas and throwing the Carbon and rest of elements and the energy out a smokestack more energy loss you have to count the energy lost as it coulda been used.
( I don’t have that data) I am sure it is less efficient than electrolysis though I have that number will use.
Energy needed to Produce 60 kwh at Wheel Fool Cell cycle
202 kwh produced at power plant
- power lines 92% efficient
- at refinery, refine hydrogen out of Natural gas 72% efficient (likely less)
– H2 gas pipeline 86% efficient –
- H2 storage 86% efficient
– Fuelcell system 54% efficient
- Electric motor 89% efficient
7 Steps in process 56 % efficient , plus loss gas drill and transport to refinery. And loss of energy in natural gas.
36.5% loss of energy. 100% more greenhouse gas, pollution
So why would you want to turn good clean electricity into a petroleum product then back into electricity in your fuel cell to power your clean electric car? Why make more complicated add pollution.
More costly, have to buy from monopoly crooked corporation, less efficient why use the most energy instead of less? More pollution, more greenhouse gas. Theft of your tax dollar into the pocket of Oil companies,
BEV’s have come from the garages and alleys of America by citizens who made their own with little sucking on the tax dollar and are more advanced cheaper and cleaner. And a real solution
Why has KPFA NEVER had a show on EV’s or Solar ?
Why do you only have petroleum Industry hacks?
Oh yea I do drive a zero pollution, zero greenhouse gas, no consumer payment to oil or utilities companies vehicle since 2004
On my EV motorcycle (EVmc) first four years commuting to work I made a $4,500 profit
What vehicle cost to build & cost solar electricity subtracted from what I would have paid for gas
I say profit in as what you can save nowdays is a profit.
It is profitable not to pollute not to generate greenhouse gas, to be energy efficient.( my EVmc uses 80 watthours per mile, equal to 400 mpg. I say no to the Oil company non solution you had on your infomercial
I do have a report in PDF where I got my information can send to you
*MY EVmc conversion http://www.evalbum.com/487
EV Photo Album- http://www.evalbum.com Thousands of EV conversions
Electric Vehicle Assn. http://eaaev.org/index.html Lots good info and links see flyers info why EV. Chapters in Bay Area
Rob’s EV Ranchero http://www.evalbum.com/2264
Enertia EVmc - http://www.brammo.com/
*Isle Man TT http://evracingnews.com/blog/
EV World http://www.evworld.com/index.cfm
*T Zero electric car http://www.acpropulsion.com/
*10 second ¼ mile EV http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/ Question Internal Combustion
Electric Racing Assoc. http://nedra.com/
Tango EV http://www.commutercars.com/
*Solar Electric Farm Tractor http://www.flyingbeet.com/index.html
Fun site http://www.electric-cars-are-for-girls.com/
Wednesday's Morning Mix program was a disgrace -- essentially a very long infomercial for the hydrogen fuel cell industry (I will admit that after the first forty minutes I gave up in disgust and tuned out in favor of music). All of the guests that I heard were cheerleaders for hydrogen fuel cells -- the first segment's guest was from the "California Fuel Cell Partnership," which on its own website calls itself a "collaboration of organizations including auto manufacturers, energy providers, government agencies and fuel cell technology companies, that work together to promote the commercialization of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles" (how blatant can you get, calling in an organization that works to "promote" this technology as your primary guest?) -- and all of the questions were softballs along the lines of "is this technology really ready for the market?" or "what are the infrastructure barriers to implementation?", with absolutely no discussion of the true pros and cons of throwing money at this much-hyped technology (which would have been difficult given the guest list).
Hydrogen in a cell, just like electricity in a battery, it isn't a fuel but is an energy storage device; and is only as "green" as the actual energy source. The hype around hydrogen is just one more way of letting people believe that there will be some kind of magic technological bullet out there so that we can keep our profligate lifestyles without cooking the planet. I am shocked to see KPFA so credulously buying into this hype.
Whatever the economic reasons for putting on an all-volunteer show in the mornings, there is definitely something to be said for experienced, professional hosts/journalists who could and would ask hard questions -- not to mention bring in some guests with independent expertise (not representatives of industry like the "fuel cell partnership"!). I would suggest that if your staff is truly interested in actual solutions to our environmental and climate crisis (and well they should be, as it is the most urgent issue facing us today), you might consider calling some actual scientists and climate experts (James Hansen or Joseph Romm would be a good place to start).
I have given the Morning Mix a chance through some amateur growing pains, but this show was an embarrassment. If I wanted to hear infomercials I would be listening to 960 on the weekends -- please spare us the fawning infomercials on KPFA!
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