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Behind the News with Doug Henwood - April 28, 2012 at 10:00am

Behind the News with Doug Henwood, for April 28, 2012 - 10:00am

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Oh - I get it - what of it I

Oh - I get it - what of it I could understand through the unintelligible too fast talking, slurring words, running over what you're saying so half the word covers the word, or it covers what the interviewee is saying. The only way to know all the content of this or any of your shows it to put it on tape and play it back slightly slowed down. I can't imagine what you have in mind, talking this way. And if you want to put it down to only some people people having that problem, maybe only the older of us, remember we're smart and out on the streets too, and at the contribution to the station lever.
People are so ingrained with a 'work ethic'. That effects the language of such as today's -28Apr - discussion as well. What you(pl) were saying is far advanced along the road that serves us, once we begin walking it. People’s resistance to it is related to being so ingrained with this excessive work idea that they couldn't get over your(s) idea that we need leisure and production.

We're taught scarcity - which there isn't. There's (been) plenty of what we need and like - maybe not enough gold and silver and jewels - enough for .... whatever . There has not been enough of basics produced - health care, housing, much consumer goods – that are necessary, or pleasant.
That keeps prices up - and concomitantly, wages low, much unemployment - which is necessary to keep wages low - and plenty of profit to our Owners.

Paul and Percival Goodman wrote 'Communitas' in '46, I think it was. In it they summarized that if the available labor force were allowed to work, a 4 hour work WEEK!! would overproduce what we need/like.
When I said that to a comrade he started in on how that's not possible: 'if' he said, 'I had to fix that window, it'd take me more than 4 hours'. I hope anyone who reads this gets the point. It doesn't take the capitalists', our Owners' work-day to get done what we need and like.
And on to the next and central ideas, who works and utopia.
Everyone wants likes needs to 'work'. Marx examined how work made us human when woman first slung down from the trees (slang?) But when we say everyone should be able to work we're imaging a certain age person along with not a person of another age - 'too young/old'. But everyone wants to and almost all are able to work.
I do not image any preconfigured condition of the person. 2 year olds on the factory floor - a little broom or bucket or message delivering... for a while, now and then, talks to family and friends en route. Same for the 90 year old - directs a production process – or takes a material someplace; the amount of time spent necessitated by circumstances, not the time-clock. Same for us all - and all of us able to work in conditions that are totally safe for us all.
All efforts to make the social situation fit us are utopian. This is what's never satisfied. There are always other materials, ideas, activities that extend or improve the situation. That's integral to work. Utopian means never satisfied – always suggesting more satisfaction.
Production that is for us all, not for profit, not for our Owners, done in gentle care of Earth, advertising actually instructive instead of for profiteering and all the destructive uses - those are what were being shown on the program - as much of it as I could understand.
We’re in the wholly trinity – socialeconomicpolitical. Think bread. It’s social – making and getting it, political – if you can’t get it it’s because of the politics that prohibit and insult us; economic – you get that. Separating those words makes it difficult for us to work on our problem
Norma normaha@pacbell.net

Re: “April 28, 2012 James

Re: “April 28, 2012 James Livingston, author of Against Thrift, speaks up in favor of the consumer culture as a liberatory thing”

I listened to this Saturday April 28, 2012, program and found this man's ideas the most ridiculous I have ever heard on your program -- and I rather like your program, well, usually. He sounded like an agent of the coerce credit card conspicuous consumption corporation.

Up to a point, I have no problem with people purchasing shiny things, but I do have a problem with waste and harm (whether harm to the environment or to other people). We don’t live capsules or on islands, regardless to how Americans like to believe they have rights and freedom (in their terms, freedom means they have the right to possess and to do whatever the hell they want!) and that their rights and freedom are paramount to or supersede the rights and freedom, needs, concerns, welfare of others.

I have a problem with some people causing other people's misery because of the amount they “take” and “waste” (whether in objects, drugs, services). I have a problem with conspicuous consuming (usually credit card consuming) pushing up prices that more modest earners domestically, and in the larger context, people in developing countries, can't even wish for (for basics like safe water, electricity, access to food, disease prevention).

I have a problem with debt — spending more than one can afford. These things, actions and reactions, societies and peoples intertwine.

Consuming excessively because one's excess robs. Living modestly and within one’s means cognizant of living in a world of peoples, of environmental needs is a good thing. Saving is a good thing.

Your Mr. Livingston is a fool and his position and access to mass media (broadcast, print, electronic and hard copy publishing) and the academy says tons, all negative, about university and media standards. Allowing him access to students, especially to young and developing minds, is irresponsible. Speaking a waste —what a waste. No wonder he kept laughing throughout that interview— he is being given a pass, being suffered by fools.
When I had had enough, I turned off the access. I don't believe in censorship, Doug, but this one you could have left in his cave.

Respectfully,
Carolyn Bennett in Western
--
Dr. Carolyn LaDelle Bennett: author, news and current affairs writer (independent)
Bennett's Study: Today’s Insight News: http://todaysinsightnews.blogspot.com/
Global Issues through the Eyes of Women: http://www.worldpulse.com/
http://www.facebook.com/#!/bennetts2ndstudy
Google: authorswork@gmail.com
Also: cwriter85@frontiernet.net

I replied...

I replied...

...this guy thinks he is

...this guy thinks he is pretty clever. I find him annoying and superficial. He is so locked into a limited point of view that is white, male, and contemporary but seems to himself think he is rather outside of the box.
BARF.
None of this touches on the values systems that create our desires... and therein lay the real problems with desire and consumption. Values systems have changed dramatically throughout time and across space. The contemporary West is completely insane and out of touch with all reality.

The problem I am having with

The problem I am having with this is that Keynesianism had a good run both before and after ww2. In the first instance the revival of the national economy of the US coincided with similar revivals in Europe attended by their repudiation of their debts after the near complete collapse of the financial system world-wide. This in turn ultimately led to war as state capitals began to compete. The second instance, in conditions of US economic hegemony led to competition from a revitalized Europe and Asia ending fixed exchange rates, rampant inflation and ultimately a capital strike. Can the intervention of national governments really alter the fact that profits depend on the existence of capital accumulation somewhere and the loss of wealth somewhere else. is the system not as the neo-cons loved to inform us a zero sum game?

The system is not economic it

The system is not economic it is Open Hierarchical System with proposed conditions to be fulfilled by social organization which preserves this open hierarchy concept.

I was spellbound. I learned

I was spellbound. I learned so much from this show.

I am thumbing througha book

I am thumbing througha book about the cohesion within social order, and they do not mention production. This book is on the topic of knowledge-based development within organizations, and is edited by an eastern person named Rajkumar, Roy 2001 publ Springer. The author refers to Hungarian Philos Arthur Koestler and his trilogy -last volume "The Ghost in the Machine"

The system is not economic it is Open Hierarchical System with proposed conditions to be fulfilled by social organization which preserves this open hierarchy concept.

Conditions he proposes relate to a breakdown assembly pattern, with sub-assemblies built from lower sub-assemblies, and the whole which is the entire assembly from all these sub-assemblies built. Each is part of the whole, with certain properties:

Autonomy - self-management ability to react against disturbances

Cooperation - subunits in layers capable of working on common projects -economics woud be one such issue. I have come across efficiency systems accounting, and patterns where a decision changes the next set of available choices i.e., artificial intelligence.

Stability, any one unit can face up to severe stress and perturbations (what?), crucial concept.

The point is distributed intelligence, and needs are for intelligence, and existing between sub-units.

There is a point about economics and a barrier to it being language, that shared information does not translate in economic terms; language probably takes on information value.

But the subunit distributed intelligence, breaks down into documents -management filing systems, activities modeling systems analysis etc, and neural networks, where approximations are built in several connection points across a data flow net, and reference can be made to a history of the data which is stored as those approximations -a data warehouse with distributed features.
Bon voyage economics program -

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